Ed Dale: On Trading Websites
Posted on March 23rd, 2010 by Luke Moulton
The following post is a guest post by Ed Dale, leading Internet Marketer and founder of the 30 Day Challenge.
I want to tell you about the single most dramatic change to the business of trading websites since I started doing it in 2005.
Now the obvious one is Flippa – a safe, secure environment for trading, which was desperately needed.
But you get that! You’re here already!
The biggest change is this…
Gettting traffic has become much harder in the last five years.
Think about it. In the good old days, you could chuck 30,000 keywords at Google at 5 cents per click and see what stuck.
Traffic was stupid simple.
Which was TERRIBLE for anyone who was trying to sell a website.
Why?
In those days, if anyone tried to sell a site that was actually making money, it would take someone approximately an hour to replicate what they had done and then throw a whole bunch of traffic at it.
“Dude, where have my profits gone!”
Within 24 hours, sites being sold would see hard won profits slashed as the rip-off merchants took the site’s core and blindly ripped it off – often straight stealing the product as well!
Those of us who were serious about trading websites had to insist on NDA’s, non-competes and most importantly, deposits, before we would hand over due diligence data – let alone the specifcs of the niche!
Funnily enough – this made it hard to sell websites!!
It made the process, long, torturous and expensive.
Now, lets look at 2010.
Today traffic is much harder and way more expensive…
This is totally awesome news for those of us trading web sites!
Think about it.
The rip-off problem has disappeared.
The common element amongst all pirates and rip-off merchants is that they are looking for the easy money, the simple score.
That just doesn’t exist anymore!
This means you can talk openly about your niche and provide all the due-diligence the market needs. (and more info = higher sales price!)
But it also does something else… It proves that
TRAFFIC IS VALUABLE
Because traffic is hard to get and expensive, any site you have that with actual unique visitors has a quantifiable value – and that’s exciting for buyers AND sellers.
For sellers, you may not have been able to get a site to work, but it has traffic. To someone already paying for traffic in your market – buying the site is a no brainer.
For buyers, traffic is REALLY cheap on Flippa at the moment. Buying sites in your market is a smart play – What’s 1000 unique visitors cost you via Google? What’s a site in your niche that is already generating that traffic EVERY month worth? I rest my case.
What’s even more exciting is how someone can start from scratch and generate money trading websites, without spending a cent.
My day job is running a site called the Thirty Day Challenge – a process for teaching people how to start an online business. This year we taught them about using Flippa to sell sites that they didn’t want any more. The results were fantastic.
It actually prompted me to develop a specific video course showing how someone could “start from scratch” with no money and start earning money trading sites on Flippa.
This course is released today and Flippa has negotiated a 20% discount for anyone who is a member of the Flippa community. That’s YOU!
You can see the course and get the first module free at http://www.ed-ucationonline.com/flippa-starting-from-scratch/
When you choose to buy – you’ll find a 20% discount voucher in your Flippa Member Tools & Resources section. Note this is not an affiliate link – just a great promotion!
Speak soon,
Ed
Comments (34)
Comments are closed.
March 24, 2010 - 12:50 am
“The rip-off problem has disappeared….That just doesn’t exist anymore!”
And if you believe that, you’ll believe anything, suckers!
What a flimsy pretext for a post – to tell us that site sellers are a lot more honest today! No, Ed, they are not. People like you talking up the possibility of making money from sites have attracted every low life to this market. There’s now so much competition in selling junk that sellers are developing new ways of conning buyers and refining the old and reliable ones to persuade them they can make big money. The rip-off hasn’t disappeared, it’s become worse.
In this post you’ve created a completely artificial difference between what the market used to be compared to what the market is now and it seems the sole motivation is so you can appear as some sort of expert and thus sell a program to the mugs who fall for that nonsense.
“In those days, if anyone tried to sell a site that was actually making money, it would take someone approximately an hour to replicate what they had done and then throw a whole bunch of traffic at it.”
I bought sites in those old days. And sold sites in those old days. You’re talking a load of garbage. The potential for “flaking” hasn’t changed an iota over time.
And people like you are claiming to be the experts and teaching others?! Jeez!
March 24, 2010 - 1:11 am
Very helpful. I intend to start flipping some sites very soon and will need the assistance you have given here, thanks.
March 24, 2010 - 6:58 am
Hi Ed,
I like Flippa. I’m currently auction a site right now. One question thought regarding this statement:
“Now the obvious one is Flippa – a safe, secure environment for trading, which was desperately needed.”
What makes it safe or secure? Flippa basically charges you the winning fee and if the buyer should happen to not want to pay you, you’re out of luck. Do you mean it’s safe and secure to pay the fees?
Thanks,
James
March 24, 2010 - 7:54 am
I don’t want to speak for Ed here, but I think he means comparatively. We are continually working on ways to make it safer, for example, we’re currently working on escrow integration.
March 26, 2010 - 7:39 pm
Excellent news Luke. Look forward to the escrow service
March 24, 2010 - 8:30 am
As with any purchase, you’ve got to do the due diligence yourself.
March 24, 2010 - 7:59 am
Ed:
Good post, but I do agree with what James said. Flippa themselves admits they are simply a conduit so the transactions between buyers and sellers is only as safe and secure as the parties involved. If I buy (or sell) a site on Flippa and get ripped off, I can’t go to Flippa for relief.
Other than that, the gist of your article is spot on – that traffic is king. When I’m looking at potential sites to buy these days, I always look for traffic first and then revenue. Of course you need to confirm the traffic as sellers can fudge those numbers like any other numbers. But given how hard it can be to get traffic, give me a site getting traffic any day!
Travis
March 25, 2010 - 4:02 am
One important point is that traffic quality varies considerably. So you need to do your due diligence on where that traffic is coming from – is it Google, social media, or low quality paid traffic?
Has traffic being rising or falling?
Is the person sending traffic through their own network (which they probably won’t continue to do after the sale)?
People commonly provide over-inflated page view numbers when they show stats from Awstats. Awstats typically records page views incorrectly and inflates the numbers by 2-10x the real amount. So watch out for that too.
March 25, 2010 - 10:51 am
The thing I like most about trading websites is there is never an excuse to get sucked in by dodgy traffic numbers the tools and strategies are out there to detect this sort of manipulation.
My point on Flippa is more about the environment they provide for trading – the rating and verification systems are a HUGE step forward.
Clever features like RSS notification of sites that meet my buying criteria are just awesome.
Of course you can get ripped off – but honestly – the buyer just needs to do the proper due diligence. You don’t and you get burn’t
It’s your fault, not Flippa’s
March 25, 2010 - 9:51 pm
Ed, I have a few questions:
1. Who are you, and why should we pay for your advice? I wasn’t able to find a bio anywhere that lists your track record trading websites or your experience that would make you qualified to give out this advice. There’s some info in your first module, but I would expect to see this somewhere online and in greater detail.
2. Flippa might be a little safer than some other methods to buy a websites, but claiming that it is “a safe, secure environment for trading” is a pretty strong statement. I don’t think it’s possible for any transaction with an anonymous person who has little to no repercussions if they mislead the other party to be particularly safe or secure. Why do you think it’s so safe?
3. How has the “rip-off problem” disappeared from a seller’s perspective? It might be a little more expensive to run PPC campaigns now than it was a few years ago, but there are still complaints from sellers about people feigning interest in their site to gather intelligence about their site.
4. Also, there are tons of sellers who make exaggerated claims about their sites. Since your information is targeted at newbies who might not know what questions to ask to unearth scams, how can you claim that the “rip-off problem” has disappeared if you look at the process as a buyer?
5. If the websites on Flippa are so cheap, why aren’t you buying as many as you can instead of telling others to do so?
6. Is it fair to claim that visits from web surfers are just as valuable as someone who has just clicked on an ad?
I could go on, but those are the statements I am most interested in. I hope you’ll take the time to respond.
March 26, 2010 - 10:35 am
Let me answer the first question as I should have properly introduced Ed.
Ed Dale foundered and created one of the most popular and free internet marketing courses in 2005 called The Thirty Day Challenge. The 30DC has been helped 1000′s of people make their first $ online.
Ed has produced a lot of great content around buying and selling websites which is why we asked if he’s be interested in posting.
March 26, 2010 - 10:51 am
Thanks. I saw that he was behind The Thirty Day Challenge, but that was about as far as I got.
March 26, 2010 - 2:18 am
>>For buyers, traffic is REALLY cheap on Flippa at the moment. Buying sites in your market is a smart play – What’s 1000 unique visitors cost you via Google? What’s a site in your niche that is already generating that traffic EVERY month worth?
What 1000 unique visitors cost via Google has nothing to do with the price of fish.
Paid traffic comes via pre-selected keywords and within a tracking and tweaking environment that allows micro optimisation. It converts well (or you’d stop/tweak your campaign).
Free traffic, on the other hand, and from years of experience in these matters, won’t convert anywhere near as well.
The worth of free traffic therefore can’t be measured by what similar VOLUMES of traffic would cost in PPC – because the QUALITY is substantially different. Free is coming in on keywords that may not have any value at all and arriving on internal pages that may not convert. You have no control over the country the traffic comes from, or the landing page. You don’t even know if those visitors are coming from one of the seller’s other properties (and hence at risk of disappearing after handover – we see lots of sellers faking traffic in Flippa!).
To suggest that the free traffic is worth the price you pay for PPC traffic – or even just comparing the two – demonstrates a poor understanding of how this whole business works.
March 26, 2010 - 3:58 pm
I hear what you’re saying here, but I think rating the value of organic traffic with the $ cost of PPC traffic is a reasonable measuring stick…
and that’s all it is, a measure; not exact science.
On the ‘quality’ point; I would disagree as on some (not all) of my sites/niches organic traffic has a higher conversion rate to paid traffic – keyword for keyword. It all comes down to the market.
March 26, 2010 - 12:46 pm
There’s some really interesting, thought provoking comments on this post. I truly got a lot out of them.
I am not a fan of the ‘make someone wrong’ approach though – it seems unnecessary and dilutes the point that is being made, as it seems more about an angry emotion of the writer’s rather than a constructive counter opinion worth considering.
I’ve known Ed since 2005 – in fact is was due to him that I got my start in Internet Marketing. I came in as what I term, a remedial newbie and did the Thirty Day Challenge.
I was a full time Internet Marketing within a year – I was pretty driven to succeed. I am a fan of Ed’s as I did not know him from a bar of soap, and he proved himself to be an authentic person of integrity who knows his stuff – as it certainly worked for me!
I have noticed a huge shift in the IM world since then. In fact I think change happens at a much more rapid rate than what I call the ‘real world’ (offline).
I’ve been through lots of peaks and troughs with my IM businesses – recovering from many a Adwords Google Slap when they were slapping hard.
For me it’s always about being flexible and adapting to the change so I continue to thrive.
So something I thought was true say last year, may not be today.
I have noticed myself, through my own direct professional experience, that it is more about being a Market Leader in your chosen niche. I would crudely describe it that online has become more conscious to branding – having a branded entity etc (I was an offline brand marketer for many years – again real experience in the field). Whereas even in 2005 – it did feel a bit like the Wild West – dump in lots of keywords, do an ugly sales page, sell your stuff.
I actually believe it’s harder to ‘rip someone off’ now – if you have a good solid business that is more than just one website (you also have a mailing list, blog, forum, membership site etc etc).
As you do become known in that field – niche field – to the niche enthusiasts.
I also suggest this – because most times people who want to rip you off are lazy – that’s why they want to rip someone off – they want a quick result and their values are such they think it’s OK to steal from another.
I think it is harder to get quick quality traffic – as in you have to work harder for it all. Even in Adwords – I have been advertising in Adwords since 2005, it is the main source of traffic for my biggest niche. But I also do nicely on SEO for it as well.
Most of my sales come off my list in fact – so it is actually about hooking them via my email marketing (offering a quality product/solution).
I was selling a business in 2008 – prior to being aware of Flippa – and it was all very cloak and dagger stuff – you know – you do not offer the website address until you get the deposit etc.
Which was how we ‘did things’ then.
Then Flippa arrived – and like everyone – I also had the question in my mind about people ‘ripping you off’.
And I also recognized that it wasn’t just about selling a website in the IM category I am in (I know for many it may be!) and things have changed – to me it is more about Market Leadership in your niche.
I actually sold a business on Flippa recently – it was a small business – I was doing nothing to it, it was generating 100% profit on organic traffic (OK 99.9%) without any PPC.
I was the problem in that business – as I was doing nothing with it as I didn’t like the topic. And I was often chastised by my mentor on all I could do – given without my help it had gotten to the first page of Google for it’s main keywords (position 12 for it’s top keyword).
So I thought I’d give this Flippa thing a go. As really this business had got to that point due to 5 years of history on Google.
I wasn’t concerned about being ripped off. Partly because I do have a Mary Poppins attitude to life – and I don’t tend to worry too much about that sort of stuff – and then don’t seem to attract it (Yes I do subscribe to Law of Attraction
).
And I had a 5 year track history for that business, I had a blog, mailing list and much more.
I created a well thought through auction – I wanted to be transparent as possible – so I created a video that showed the stats I was claiming.
So you could see they were actuals – not made ups.
I also offered access to my Traffic Stats to serious bidders – which weeded out the ‘window shoppers’ nicely.
I spent a lot of time and effort answering questions, and I quickly worked out who were legit and who were not in my assessment. Aided by the PM relationship we built up.
There were definitely ‘all sorts’ showing ‘interest’.
I took responsibility for assessing them. The couple that purchased my website, and another interested party did something smart I thought. They built a relationship with me by being warm and real whilst asking their questions. There were some other prospects who stunned me with their approach to asking questions! Don’t people know business is largely built around relationships?
Everything with my sale went smoothly. I am a big fan of Flippa based on that experience.
I was not worried about being ripped off – as it was 5 years of work – a scammer is not into putting in 5 years of work, let alone a month.
I am sure ‘low lifes’ as termed, are lurking around Flippa – they’re everywhere – even in the real world! But I am not worried about them myself.
I trust that I can weed them out – as my attitude is to educate myself as much as possible – Flippa was a completely new experience to me – so I educated myself. That’s my responsibility to do so.
I also very carefully reviewed and screened those that asked questions, PM’d me and bid. And I trusted my process of screening – whilst knowing there is always risk.
Just as when I cross the road, I may think I have it right, and there is risk.
If I was buying – I would actually take much the same approach as I did selling. I am big on due diligence either side of the fence. And also building authentic relationships, even if they are just for the course of the sale.
If I was to sell a quickly created WP blog website on one theme keyword & category keywords – which seem to be popular. I would take the attitude that prospects just don’t want to do it themselves – so they’d rather pay $200 for you having done the keyword research, basic SEO and web creation. I would of course present all figures honestly. So I would see prospects to have a different profile to the ones that bought my complete niche business. I can’t see the harm there – as long as people do their due diligence – both sides of the fence.
As I said to open – I have been truly interested in some of the contrary opinions. I also understand (as I checked the posters out
) that people are speaking from their own experience as well.
I tend to think that it is possible to have different experiences in the same area. My experience with selling on Flippa – the whole process has been excellent. That is what I tend to lead with in my opinions, which I think is natural.
I think individuals need to take the responsibility to educate themselves. I am a fan of Ed’s education systems – because I have done well online for myself in my own businesses, by following his teachings (I do now teach for him, because it’s worked for me!). Again that is my direct experience. I appreciate that there will always be differing opinions on what is right and not right – online and offline. I guess I trust myself to be a good judge of character and approach, and I am always learning every minute of every day.
Thanks again to everyone for their contributions!
Caro
March 26, 2010 - 3:43 pm
He’s right about Flippa being the safe and secure place to buy websites
Previously, to buy sites, the only option was the “wild wild west” of forums or eBay – and as much as I liked the SitePoint marketplace, Flippa is a huge improvement.
Re: Ed’s content – to answer the skeptics, I got a chance to hear some of it at a seminar recently (the seminar where the photo on the webpage was taken).
I also spoke at length, and shared a meal, with Dan (one of the real-life case studies of this strategy working – a musician who was in serious debt, and has turned everything around using this strategy.)
It’s a very clever strategy that, starting-from-nothing, builds up a portfolio of income generating websites using Flippa to get the dollars for the first few deals.
March 26, 2010 - 4:44 pm
Flippa is a fantastic trading house for websites.
The thing to note when buying a website is that every single claim a seller makes in a listing, can be and more importantly, should be backed up with proof.
As buyers, we should always, always, always take the line, that if a seller’s claim can not be backed up with proof, then it’s simply not true.
Just move on to the next listing.
It’s really not that difficult to run your own due diligence on any potential purchases.
I always check a sellers feedback, actually, potential buyers as well.
It’s a fantastic way to gain insight. Now, if someone is new to flippa, then be very thorough with the checking of claims.
I’ve bought and sold over 100 websites online over the last six months, and any problems I’ve had have been few and far between and resolved very quickly by flippa.
You’ll find that most “problems” are simple misunderstandings anyway.
Danny
March 26, 2010 - 5:26 pm
Experience is a wonderful thing. I can understand how some people would be skeptical about this Ed Dale guy, after all they probably weren’t around in 2005/6 when he did the deal to sell a portfolio of sites for $5million (was $5 million a lot for sites back then?…hell yeah!).
The also probably weren’t around when he then set up Dominiche, which must have been one of the first, if not the first, course on buying and selling websites.
They probably don’t move in the circles where they would know that30DCINC is launching on the US stock market and that the core business of 30DCINC is to buy up sites and businesses making 10K+ a month (none of these penny ante crap sites that people are squabbling over here).
So yes Ed moves in the rarefied heights of big dollars, and not at the level of “my niche is in danger of some twat throwing Mechanical Turk visitors at a site and calling it traffic”.
I still can’t figure out if the commenters are against Flippa because it there are scumbags that frequent here, or because the community doesn’t like an “outsider” coming in and telling them how to suck eggs.
The thing is, Ed is helping people learn how to avoid that bad stuff that can happen when you are staring out and that can only be good for this community(and boy when I have sold sites here the n00bs have been REALLY n00bish).
March 27, 2010 - 6:16 am
I can’t speak for any other people who made comments on this post, but I’d love to hear this background from Ed himself, and it would have been great to know in advance of this advertisement. I’ve been in this business for several years, and I’ve never heard of him, but I’m not the type to jump in and join the types of courses that he sells.
If he has reached the level of success that you are stating (and I have no reason to doubt you), it makes his post even more odd because there are so many incorrect or incomplete statements. Maybe he felt like he needed to be kind to Flippa because they are giving him some free advertising, but I feel like he made a number of statements in his post that are misleading at best to try and pump up this site. I believe that they are working to make it the best place to buy and sell websites, but I also believe that it is careless to target a post at newcomers to the business and tell them that all traffic is created equal and there is no risk to buying or selling a site at Flippa.
I hope he comes back and follows up his original post with more information.
March 27, 2010 - 9:44 am
Where have I been misleading? – specifically.
Happy to address any specifics but funnily enough don’t appreciate being accused of misleading anyone.
I’m all for healthy questioning but if your going to suggest I’m being misleading you need to be able to back that up or apologise.
March 27, 2010 - 12:04 pm
I listed my issues with your post above in detail, so I don’t know how more specific I could be. To repeat what I said above in post #10 of this thread, you are promoting a product directed at people new to this business, and you are telling them:
1. There is no risk of being ripped off when buying or selling a website. In reality, there are scam listings on Flippa and other sites on a regular basis, and there are buyers who try all sorts of methods to get out of paying for a site. I don’t think they make up the majority of transactions, but there are enough out there that you can’t just ignore them.
2. Flippa is safe and secure. It might be safer than some alternatives, but as I said already, there are scam artists there on a regular basis and their potential existence can’t be disregarded. Even Luke, a Flippa employee, suggested that you might have overstated the safety of doing business at Flippa.
3. Visitors from a website are just as good as visitors who have clicked on an ad. This could be true, but certainly not in many cases, and you didn’t place any conditions on this statement. For example, if you are promoting a software product, would you rather have PPC traffic from well written ads, or traffic from a warez download site you just bought because it has 1,000 visitors a day, and you didn’t look any further?
Based on some of the other comments here from people who are familiar with your work, it sounds like you have a pretty impressive track record and have a lot of satisfied customers, which would have been nice to know before Flippa posted this ad for you, but it doesn’t mean that your claims in this post are any more valid.
It really comes down to this: If you were just starting out and followed the advice in your post, would you have a high probability of being successful, or is it more likely that you would end up as someone who overpaid for a site because the previous owner cherry-picked the stats they reported from the site’s best month of revenue or it has a bunch of traffic that is difficult to monetize?
I hope you’ll actually address the points that I have raised (twice) instead of ignoring what I said and asking for an apology.
March 28, 2010 - 4:49 pm
Specifically,
1. There is no risk of being ripped off when buying or selling a website. In reality, there are scam listings on Flippa and other sites on a regular basis, and there are buyers who try all sorts of methods to get out of paying for a site. I don’t think they make up the majority of transactions, but there are enough out there that you can’t just ignore them.
@@ My point here is that the buyer can easily work this out prior to make the transaction if they do the proper due diligence – sadly people dont and this is where they have the chance to get caught. With Flippa Verified data and sellers plus the ranking system for members helps.
Bluntly – scammy listings can be spotted a mile off. Correct Due Diligence is the key. if you’re a seller be prepared to give real detail and be contactable.
2. Flippa is safe and secure. It might be safer than some alternatives, but as I said already, there are scam artists there on a regular basis and their potential existence can’t be disregarded. Even Luke, a Flippa employee, suggested that you might have overstated the safety of doing business at Flippa.
@@ I maintain that flippa is the best environment currently for buying and selling web sites. It’s up to the buyer and the seller to make sure they do the proper due diligence to ensure a safe transaction.
3. Visitors from a website are just as good as visitors who have clicked on an ad. This could be true, but certainly not in many cases, and you didn’t place any conditions on this statement. For example, if you are promoting a software product, would you rather have PPC traffic from well written ads, or traffic from a warez download site you just bought because it has 1,000 visitors a day, and you didn’t look any further?
@@ great question – of course you would not have seen that as part of the valuation process I value that traffic at a significant discount. i always work with bad numbers. I’d rather be pleasantly surprised with a good result. Again, you dont know me that well but I wouldn’t buy one of those generic crap sites in a billion years. I’m a niche marketer and proud of it. I know my numbers and know the conversion rates from “content” style traffic.
if you’re contention is that traffic from a niche market is worthless – we would just have to agree to disagree.
Based on some of the other comments here from people who are familiar with your work, it sounds like you have a pretty impressive track record and have a lot of satisfied customers, which would have been nice to know before Flippa posted this ad for you, but it doesn’t mean that your claims in this post are any more valid.
@@ Stand by my post 100% – it wasn’t an “ad” it was a guest blog post – I did not pay for it and Flippa received not a cent – They did insist on a discount for their members – and I was happy to do that.
It really comes down to this: If you were just starting out and followed the advice in your post, would you have a high probability of being successful, or is it more likely that you would end up as someone who overpaid for a site because the previous owner cherry-picked the stats they reported from the site’s best month of revenue or it has a bunch of traffic that is difficult to monetize?
Don’t take my word for it – look at the just sold category in Flippa – sites are being sold EVERY DAY that have literally been created a couple of days before.
I’m not a big fan of this but it’s happening.
– I’m a huge fan of creating a site that has real value – then selling it on flippa
I hope you’ll actually address the points that I have raised (twice) instead of ignoring what I said and asking for an apology.
@@Points addressed and I would still like you to retract the fact that I have mislead people – I haven’t and you should apologise.
March 29, 2010 - 1:36 am
Here are my responses (Ed’s comments denoted by @@, mine are denoted by >>). I wish there were some formatting options in these comments:
@@ My point here is that the buyer can easily work this out prior to make the transaction if they do the proper due diligence – sadly people dont and this is where they have the chance to get caught. With Flippa Verified data and sellers plus the ranking system for members helps.
Bluntly – scammy listings can be spotted a mile off. Correct Due Diligence is the key. if you’re a seller be prepared to give real detail and be contactable.
>> I agree completely. However, none of this was in your original post.
@@ I maintain that flippa is the best environment currently for buying and selling web sites. It’s up to the buyer and the seller to make sure they do the proper due diligence to ensure a safe transaction.
>> I mostly agree. Using a human broker is certainly better, but that’s not an option for most of the sites here. Flippa might be better than its competition, but being the best and being so good that people in the marketplace don’t have to worry about the possibility of being ripped off (as you claimed) are not the same.
@@ great question – of course you would not have seen that as part of the valuation process I value that traffic at a significant discount. i always work with bad numbers. I’d rather be pleasantly surprised with a good result. Again, you dont know me that well but I wouldn’t buy one of those generic crap sites in a billion years. I’m a niche marketer and proud of it. I know my numbers and know the conversion rates from “content” style traffic.
if you’re contention is that traffic from a niche market is worthless – we would just have to agree to disagree.
>>Again, I agree with this statement, but it offers much more detail than what you said in your original post. You prove my point when you say that I don’t know your valuation method for traffic, because no one can know your valuation method by reading this post. Also, I never said that niche traffic is worthless. It can be more valuable than paid traffic, but that is not always true. As with all of my complaints, my issue was that you didn’t offer any explanation about how to value traffic, leaving it to your audience to determine if all traffic is equal or not, and your target audience is incapable of performing that task.
@@ Stand by my post 100% – it wasn’t an “ad” it was a guest blog post – I did not pay for it and Flippa received not a cent – They did insist on a discount for their members – and I was happy to do that.
>>Just because money didn’t change hands doesn’t mean that you and Flippa aren’t both benefiting from this post, and I never claimed that you paid Flippa or were paid by Flippa. You have a product to sell, and you are getting a lot of exposure for that product. Flippa got a discount for its members, and gets to say that it has partnered with a successful Internet marketer. To claim this is not an advertisement of any kind is not really fair, but I don’t have a problem with people writing guest posts at all. It is the information in the post that caused my response.
@@ Don’t take my word for it – look at the just sold category in Flippa – sites are being sold EVERY DAY that have literally been created a couple of days before.
I’m not a big fan of this but it’s happening.
– I’m a huge fan of creating a site that has real value – then selling it on flippa
>> I can’t debate that there are plenty of people winning auctions on Flippa, but that has little to do with what I asked. I don’t think that many of those people would be as successful if they followed the information in your original post to the letter. If they had all of the information you have provided in the comment above, their chances would improve.
@@Points addressed and I would still like you to retract the fact that I have mislead people – I haven’t and you should apologise.
>>If your original post was as well thought out as this rebuttal to all of the issues I raised, there would have been nothing for me to complain about. You have added all sorts of caveats and conditions in your response above, many of which directly contradict your original post. I stand by my claim that your original post would send people new to this business (your target audience!) in the wrong direction, and there is no reason for anyone who has pointed out any of the many flaws in your post to apologize. I’d even go as far to say that you owe this audience an apology for passing off your original, clearly incomplete article as useful advice, but I won’t hold my breath waiting for that to happen.
March 26, 2010 - 5:36 pm
I agree Ed proper due diligence is key. There are ways to find out if the seller is telling the truth. I would not take their word on anything. I want verified facts when I purchase a site. Also I have always used escrow when I buy and sell never had a problem. I have never had a problem using Flippa.
March 27, 2010 - 12:30 pm
You clearly understand what you need to do to protect yourself as a buyer, but your actions don’t line up with what Ed says in this post.
He states that “The rip-off problem has disappeared” in the post, but then contradicts himself by saying that you need to do due diligence and “Of course you can get ripped off” in one of his comments.
If there was no chance of being ripped off, you would be able to take the seller’s word about the traffic sources and revenue, and you wouldn’t have to use a service like Escrow.com. If you understand that you need to confirm all of the statements made by the seller and you know how to do it, your chances of success are much higher.
March 27, 2010 - 9:55 am
To all of you out there wondering about Ed Dale and the safety of flipping domains on here I would like to tell you of my two experiences in the last two days. Both are extremely positive so if you do not like your pint half full stop reading now.
Luke who posted earlier will confirm that I had a problem with a site I had sold previously as I mailed him about it. I bought a domain, built a site on it and sold the site with great domain age, good PR and solid backlinking done. The buyer was happy to pay the price and started using it. However, despite me having done all of the due diligence, a month later they were presented with a cease and desist letter from the trademark holder of the name of the site.
They contacted me and I offered to pay all of the money back as I didn’t want to have an unhappy client. Unfortunately they didn’t receive my mail, it must have gone into spam. Today they contacted me again asking me for my reaction to the C+D letters and I copied them the mail I had sent and the dates.
They immediately got back to me and said because of my honourable attitude they would forego the repayment. I am truly humbled by this attitude and if I am given permission by them i will name them as they buy plenty of sites and are genuinely good people. (I have received that permission. The buyer in question is NEWSITEBUYER and they are actively looking for good sites to buy to all you flippers out there. Really nice people to deal with)
Secondly, and from the other side I bought a site a couple of months ago and asked my team in India to do the transfer to my hosting account which they did.
Anyway, last Wednesday my site disappeared. It had been taken down from a remote location and because of the name of the person who had access on the take down and the ip address according to Hostgator I thought it had to be the seller who had taken it down. I started imagining the worst as I sent an email and didn’t have an immediate response. Everybody started telling me “ah you have been scammed”.
Well 24 hours later I received a mail of apology from the seller as he had been cleaning his own hosting account. In the process of changeover, which took some time, at the end he had forgotten to actually sign the domain over to me in the registry so it was still in his name. When he took it down off his hosting therefore the nameservers changed again and my site disappeared.
He sorted this in five minutes and is in constant touch with my team in India now to make sure the site is put back correctly and everyone is happy.
The moral of the stories?
If you come at this without doing your due diligence and working with the seller or buyer then you will always be worried about the outcome and your prejudices colour your opinions.
If you have the attitude of Caro above and others who have posted here then you are much more likely to come out with a positive outcome.
As for Ed, I was a guinea pig for the starting from scratch process and can confirm it works and works even better than well. The purchase I made above was with proceeds from the process and that site will be flipped again once it is making the amount I want it to make. Rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat.
March 27, 2010 - 12:15 pm
In general, I have had positive experiences buying websites. I also have had some negative experiences, and I have had some that could have been negative, but I knew enough to back out when something didn’t look right. Most people aren’t trying to take advantage of others in the marketplace, but that doesn’t mean that you can just ignore the potential pitfalls.
For example, it doesn’t sound like the first buyer in your story had a very positive experience, because has lost the money he paid you, the domain, and could have some legal issues, even though it worked out well for you.
March 27, 2010 - 5:54 pm
I see your point but you would have to ask them. They are using it for a case study so will apply the lessons learnt so that others don’t have the same experience. (Evidently you could ask them)
There are no legal issues left and it has been a learning experience for all of us.
Meanwhile the question must be what is a safe marketplace. Compare Flippa to eBay. I bet you have had bad experiences on eBay, I know I have. When do they happen? When you ignore the little alarm bells going off in your head when something looks too good to be true. It generally is. That iPhone from China for $50. You know really it isn’t but people still buy them. The feedback system here is great and will get even better over time.
If the feedback is bad don’t buy. If the seller is new, or the buyer, then do more due diligence an insist on escrow even if it costs you a little more.
March 28, 2010 - 12:04 am
You’re making my point for me.
If they are using their experience with you as the basis of a case study so they can better understand how to avoid another incident like the one they had with you (and tell others how to avoid it), that is not exactly a ringing endorsement for your services or your listings in the future. If they ever do business with you again, I’d be shocked.
I think you should just be glad that they decided not to sue you instead of trying to convince others that this buyer enjoyed the experience of buying something from you and then having it taken away.
Regarding your statements about what makes up a safe marketplace, I mostly agree, but I have never had an issue with eBay. I have bought a few items that didn’t work, and I got a refund. I have bought other items and been satisfied. I know better than to buy something that looks to good to be true, but someone who doesn’t ask themselves if they could be ripped off is setting themselves up for failure.
March 27, 2010 - 10:30 am
I look at Flippa and every website sounds great. Great Niche, Fully automated, I earned $5,321 in 2 days etc. There are only a handful that I would consider great sites.
I agree Ed proper due diligence is key. If you look at the domain age some of these sites many are weeks old or copies of similar sites. So do your homework if you are interested in a website research, research and more research. Then ask the seller any questions you have.
March 27, 2010 - 11:52 pm
You’re not agreeing with Ed’s original post. He stated that “The rip-off problem has disappeared” which would imply to me that no due diligence is required, but did change his tune in one of his comments.
Anyway, you’re exactly right about almost every website at Flippa sounding like the deal of the century, which is why you have to be on guard when evaluating them.
March 28, 2010 - 2:05 am
I don’t often comment on these threads. But as a recognised expert in the field of buying and selling websites – something Flippa management will no doubt be delighted to confirm – I focus on the making money, not selling ebooks on making money.
When I do share my knowledge, I do it free of charge – like the valuation article I’ve written for Sitepoint (articles.sitepoint.com/article/web-site-valuation-guide) and the information about buying and selling websites that I share on experienced-people dot co dot uk. All free.
I have NOTHING to sell any one so have no money riding on convincing you of anything. Notice I don’t have a link in my signature that leads to a make-money-from-site-flipping site or an internet marketing site with a vested interest, and am not a “mate” dropping in to play cheerleader to the blog poster. My link leads to a not-for-profit forum where you can find out the truth about website buying and selling. Flippa owners and managers hang out there as do people who’ve made their millions from doing, not from talking. I have no axe to grind and don’t know the author of this blog post.
>>Where have I been misleading? – specifically.
I can’t be bothered spending any more time explaining why this post is the absolute pits, an advert disguised as information. But drop into my forums, Ed, we have a very interesting four page thread discussing this very post and what’s misleading about it. You can use the term flim flam in the forum search to find the thread.
March 28, 2010 - 4:06 pm
Did you just post your own advert disguised as information?
March 28, 2010 - 5:15 pm
I did drop in and respond for what it’s worth.
Thanks for giving me the opportunity to respond and address some of the misconseptions.
One is worth putting here.
I did make a big mistake in the article.
I should have been more clear about who I was referring to when i described the “rip off merchants”
I wasn’t talking about “scam” listings – sadly, they are still there and proper due diligence is your only protection against that.
I was referring to the wild west days of 2005/2006 where people would replicate your site in an hour (and yes I stand by that – they literally copied the site and stole the product)
The thing that made the scum act possible was cheap easy traffic – traffic is no longer cheap or easy – those type of rip-off merchants have long moved on to easier scams.
That was the point I was trying to make. Thanks for allowing me to clarify.